Sat Sri Akal Ji,I have the daily prayers in audio format (Giani Thakur Singh Ji's recording of Japji Sahib, Jaap Sahib, Tav Parsad Savaiye, Chaupai Sahib, Anand Sahib, Rehras Sahib, and Kirtan Sohila.) I also have the iPhone app called iNitnem E (English) and it has the trasliteration and translations for them so I can follow along as I listen.Since I am not fluent in Punjabi is it ok to listen to these as recordings instead of reciting them?What about if I chose to do Amrit? I know in the Rehet it says that all Sikhs should be fluent in Punjabi, and reading Gurmukhi, but even trying to learn I know that I am not good with languages. I took French all through school years and learned a vocabulary of about maybe 50 words and can only say very basic phrases (like ask for directions etc).
Can I still do Amrit if I am not fluent in Punjabi, and I can I use recordings and translations to follow along, instead of reciting them on my own? Or does my ability to do Amrit depend on me having to fluently learn Punjabi?? Re: Listening to instead of reciting Bani??Akasha Ji, I think Amrit is such a big Commitment that one shouldn't rush into it for any reason. I don't think God/Guru would judge you for holding off & really preparing & prepping yourself w/ the adequate Life-style/knowledge before stepping into this commitment. B/c Once it's made, its made, there's no going back.
There's no, 'Oh i wish I knew how to do this better or that,' One should sufficiently prepare themselves beforehand. You don't forget a ring to a wedding (well, a western one), or forget to tell your partner you love them, for not Knowing the language, you prep yourself before-hand for the Commitment you are about to make. The better the preparation, the smoother the sailing afterwards (presumably). But yea, in terms of not knowing the Gurbani in its original form, at least the Daily Prayers, I think it's a No-go for the Amrit life-style. However, I think for the stage you're at (& as am I. The sort of beginning 'learners' etc.) I think it's adequate to just listen as well as you can & try to grasp the pronunciation & couple them w/ the Translations. The effort is what matters.My opinions only, please do not take offense.
thank you. Re: Listening to instead of reciting Bani??So basically you are saying that if I can not grasp the language (being bad at learning languages.) then I should never be able to do Amrit? I know that Amrit is a huge commitment, and I am taking steps to live by it now, before I ever do. But you are saying that if I am just not wired to learn to speak fluent Punjabi, then I can never do Amrit? That is disappointing. As I will always feel only part way to where I want to be and was hoping to do Amrit in a couple of years from now.
Some people are just not wired to learn certain things. I am good with science and math, but not languages. As for the lifestyle, I am already living most of it now. Akasha Ji, I think Amrit is such a big Commitment that one shouldn't rush into it for any reason. I don't think God/Guru would judge you for holding off & really preparing & prepping yourself w/ the adequate Life-style/knowledge before stepping into this commitment. B/c Once it's made, its made, there's no going back.
There's no, 'Oh i wish I knew how to do this better or that,' One should sufficiently prepare themselves beforehand. You don't forget a ring to a wedding (well, a western one), or forget to tell your partner you love them, for not Knowing the language, you prep yourself before-hand for the Commitment you are about to make. The better the preparation, the smoother the sailing afterwards (presumably).
But yea, in terms of not knowing the Gurbani in its original form, at least the Daily Prayers, I think it's a No-go for the Amrit life-style. However, I think for the stage you're at (& as am I. The sort of beginning 'learners' etc.) I think it's adequate to just listen as well as you can & try to grasp the pronunciation & couple them w/ the Translations. The effort is what matters.My opinions only, please do not take offense.
thank you. So basically you are saying that if I can not grasp the language (being bad at learning languages.) then I should never be able to do Amrit? I know that Amrit is a huge commitment, and I am taking steps to live by it now, before I ever do. But you are saying that if I am just not wired to learn to speak fluent Punjabi, then I can never do Amrit? That is disappointing. As I will always feel only part way to where I want to be and was hoping to do Amrit in a couple of years from now. Some people are just not wired to learn certain things.
I am good with science and math, but not languages. As for the lifestyle, I am already living most of it now. Re: Listening to instead of reciting Bani??What does the SRM say about it for amritdharis?
I know it says listening is ok for a Sikh but not sure re Khalsa and not at a pc to checkI find the recordings by rajnarind kaur the best as she's made them explicitly for learning pronunciations so they are crystal clear.But even if you hang your amrit sanchar on your ability to parrot the banis, isn't it more meaningful to know what it is you're actually saying? If you wait to know what it is you're actually saying you then have to understand it. It could make a very long time!I read somewhere that amrit sanchar isn't the end, it's the beginning.I say, go for it.
If you can even keep up a daily schedule of listening to banis you're already ahead of lots of so called Khalsa. Sat Sri Akal Ji,I have the daily prayers in audio format (Giani Thakur Singh Ji's recording of Japji Sahib, Jaap Sahib, Tav Parsad Savaiye, Chaupai Sahib, Anand Sahib, Rehras Sahib, and Kirtan Sohila.) I also have the iPhone app called iNitnem E (English) and it has the trasliteration and translations for them so I can follow along as I listen.Since I am not fluent in Punjabi is it ok to listen to these as recordings instead of reciting them?What about if I chose to do Amrit? I know in the Rehet it says that all Sikhs should be fluent in Punjabi, and reading Gurmukhi, but even trying to learn I know that I am not good with languages. I took French all through school years and learned a vocabulary of about maybe 50 words and can only say very basic phrases (like ask for directions etc). Can I still do Amrit if I am not fluent in Punjabi, and I can I use recordings and translations to follow along, instead of reciting them on my own?
Or does my ability to do Amrit depend on me having to fluently learn Punjabi?? Satnaam Akasha Ji,Do not worry about whether you can read punjabi or not.as guru ji says:jo praanee govi(n)dh dhhiaavai That mortal who meditates on the Lord of the Universe,parriaa anaparriaa param gath paavai 1 whether educated or uneducated, obtains the state of supreme dignity. 1 197What else do you need to know? Unfortunately, as I said, I took French all through school years and really never learned anything. A few words maybe and how to say hello, where is the washroom? And French uses the same romanized alphabet. With Punjabi, not only do I need to learn vocabulary, but also a whole new way of reading.
I doubt that in two years I will be fluent! If I have to wait until I am fluent, I will never get to do Amrit.I am not saying that I will stop trying to learn it though. But as Ishna says, I thought Amrit was the beginning of the journey, not the end. So then if it's in my heart to really want to be Amritdhari, and I do everything that is asked of me (daily bani, keeping kesh, no intoxicants, veggie, 5 K's etc) then why can't I do Amrit, and listen to and read along with the original Gurbani, the transliteration into Punjabi, and also the English? Rather than trying to memorize Punjabi vocabulary for the rest of my life, I think eventually I will learn more by reading the translations side by side.
I do that now at the Gurdwara on the screen.I can actually say the full Mool Mantra in Punjabi, and recognize it in Gurmukhi too. But only because I have seen it many times. I am not actually 'reading' it. I can also recognize 'Nanak' now because I recognize the character for n sound and k. But even if I learn all the phonetic sounds to the point where I can sound out the words, I will still lack the Punjabi vocabulary to have a conversation or understand what I am reading.
That could take literally years and the rest of my life to try to learn, and if I used that as a gage for taking Amrit, then I will never do so.As for the commitment of doing Amrit, I have been studying Sikhism for over 10 years now and slowly adding more in practice bit by bit so that it has been easy. If I had tried to add everything all at once, it would have been difficult to do I think. But I started with just Japji Sahib, and wearing a kara. Then stopping cutting hairs. I am now adding kachera, and trying to learn to tie a dastar.
Once I can do that well enough, I will start carrying the kanga too. This has been over months. And I am aiming for 1.5-2 years from now to do Amrit (thats when I am going on a trip to Amritsar and would like to do it at the Golden Temple if its possible). It's just the language barrier that worries me. Very good point about none of us knowing how long our life will be. I could put off doing Amrit, saying I will do it when I feel I can read and understand Punjabi, and then something could happen where Waheguru calls me home sooner, and I would have lost out.
Hence, this is why I think Amrit is the beginning and not the end. It's a promise to Guru Ji to live in this way, and to learn (isn't that what 'Sikh' means anyway. Learner?) Life IS short, and I never really thought of that in this context but I think you hit the nail on the head. And I think in my heart that Waheguru KNOWS none of us are perfect, as long as our hearts and minds are in the right place and we give it our best. Chaz Ji,Very good point about none of us knowing how long our life will be.
I could put off doing Amrit, saying I will do it when I feel I can read and understand Punjabi, and then something could happen where Waheguru calls me home sooner, and I would have lost out. Hence, this is why I think Amrit is the beginning and not the end. It's a promise to Guru Ji to live in this way, and to learn (isn't that what 'Sikh' means anyway. Learner?) Life IS short, and I never really thought of that in this context but I think you hit the nail on the head.
And I think in my heart that Waheguru KNOWS none of us are perfect, as long as our hearts and minds are in the right place and we give it our best. We live in the illusion of time. The past is just memories.the future is just dreams, hopes and desires.but we are only conscious of the present.only the present moment exists.make it a good momentWe have to learn to become good listeners.when you listen to your gurbani tapes.listen to them with full focus.single mindedness.to very single word and sound.learn to ignore our wavering mind.
This 'listening' will train us to listen to the guru's shabad that is within us.by guru ji's grace we will all be blessed with that stage.God bless. Hey,I've got good news for you. The SRM saysg. FONT=CGOLLD+Arial,Arial FONT=CGOLLD+Arial,Arial Learning Gurmukhi (Punjabi in Gurmukhi script) is essential for a Sikh.
He should pursue other studies also. /FONT FONT=CGOLLD+Arial,Arial- 12 - /FONTFONT=CGOLLD+Arial,Arial/FONTFONT=CGOLLD+Arial,ArialIt doesn't say being fluent. Technically speaking right now your learning./FONTFONT=CGOLLD+Arial,ArialFrom my point of view, People get to hung up on the 'only in Punjabi can you understand' trying to make it a sacred language.Granted anything written is better understood in the original. However, the very reason Guru Nanak wrote in Punjabi, instead of Sanskrit,was to make it accessible to everyone.
/FONTFONT=CGOLLD+Arial,ArialI know this is out of context but it makes a nice closing./FONTFONT=CGOLLD+Arial,Arial suixAY lwgY shij iDAwnu /FONTFONT=CGOLLD+Arial,Arialsu ni-ai laagai sahj Dhi-aan.Listening-intuitively grasp the essence of meditation./FONT/FONT. Vaheguru Ji Ka KhalsaVaheguru Ji Ki Fateh Akasha Ji -When I was living back home in Punjab in 1984 I graduated from Convent High School. I was 15/16 year old and didn't study Punjabi at all.
My Parents had taught me to do Japji Sahib and that was it. June 1984 affected us all very badly and my family decided to go for Amrit Sanchaar Ceremony. I was the youngest in family and jumped in the bandwagon too. Everyone laughed at me - hey, you don't know how to do Path / Nitnem how will you work it out? I used to say I will do Vaheguru, Vaheguru Jaap.There are people who are illeterate or people like me or you who don't have command over the language!
So anyways to cut the long story short - I was a young boy without commitment ( which you have ). I went to college got busy and was unable to keep up with Nitnem part. I will do it here and there.
Japji Sahib was easy to do. Jaap Sahib took me forever to get used to. Then i got married i came here to US. Back home there were too many distractions. Sikh freedom movement / family circumstances were changing / I was young and so many other excuses.
I kept on to my 5 Kakaars. I forgot to mention I was deeply hurt when i had to take off my Kirpan at the Airport on my first trip.But once here I tried to keep up with Nitnem here and there. But i was not regular.I got involved in Gurduara Sahib Managment / community affairs.Believe it or not started volunteering in Punjabi School. Even though i didn't study Punjabi as a first language but my Punjabi was still better than most of the people involved in Sunday School. I used to curse the system which didn't teach us our own language. That passion inside me motivated me the most. People asked me to teach there kids Punjabi and I couldn't refuse them.
It reminded of my School days without learning our mother tongue. In the meantime I was blessed with 2 daughters. Now I was even more fired up to teach Punjabi / Gurmukhi. I ended up with lots of students.I also did my first Sehaj Path of Guru Granth Sahib on the 300 Aniversary or Guru Granth Sahib. It took me one full year. I also did Gurbani Santhiya with Giani Ji to help me with Sehaj path. Now I am also involved in Gurmat Sangeet.
I am a student and organiser of 3 classes. We hired a professional teacher and have over 20 students.I am telling you all this - because you are doing what other's are still far far away from!
If you have that fire / passion inside you to succeed on this Marg then one day sooner or later you will achieve it.I am no one to advise you - but i can tell you from personal experience. My brother first started with maintaining Rehat - meaning wearing all 5 Kakaars, doing Nitnem and following Rehat. After testing himself - then he decided to go ahead with Amrit Sanchaar.I have also seen people who skip all this and fail badly.Now it's all up to you - you have already started listening to Bani and are attempting to learn and understand it.
That's one step forward.Keep it up!Daas,Harjot Singh. Unfortunately, as I said, I took French all through school years and really never learned anything. A few words maybe and how to say hello, where is the washroom? And French uses the same romanized alphabet. With Punjabi, not only do I need to learn vocabulary, but also a whole new way of reading.
I doubt that in two years I will be fluent! If I have to wait until I am fluent, I will never get to do Amrit.I never said Fluency in the whole Language was important.
There's a lot in Punjabiyat that is not in line w/ Sikhism. I think the basic pronunciation of the Basic DAILY PRAYERS is what you were referring to, & they are, what? Three hours in length? I think anyone of the Adult size can learn that in a matter of months if they really put their heart to it. (That is not to say you should skip translations, )I am not saying that I will stop trying to learn it though. But as Ishna says, I thought Amrit was the beginning of the journey, not the end.
Everyone has, & is Allowed to have their Own Perception. I have my own, I shared it. I respect others who think differently, b/c it is the Intent, the Heart of a person that matters. I have no beef w/ People who think Differently, as long as they focus on their own growth.
It bothers me None. So then if it's in my heart to really want to be Amritdhari, and I do everything that is asked of me (daily bani, keeping kesh, no intoxicants, veggie, 5 K's etc) then why can't I do Amrit, and listen to and read along with the original Gurbani, the transliteration into Punjabi, and also the English?
Rather than trying to memorize Punjabi vocabulary for the rest of my life, I think eventually I will learn more by reading the translations side by side. I do that now at the Gurdwara on the screen. Good for you.I can actually say the full Mool Mantra in Punjabi, and recognize it in Gurmukhi too. But only because I have seen it many times. I am not actually 'reading' it.
I can also recognize 'Nanak' now because I recognize the character for n sound and k. But even if I learn all the phonetic sounds to the point where I can sound out the words, I will still lack the Punjabi vocabulary to have a conversation or understand what I am reading. That could take literally years and the rest of my life to try to learn, and if I used that as a gage for taking Amrit, then I will never do so.As for the commitment of doing Amrit, I have been studying Sikhism for over 10 years now and slowly adding more in practice bit by bit so that it has been easy. If I had tried to add everything all at once, it would have been difficult to do I think. But I started with just Japji Sahib, and wearing a kara. Then stopping cutting hairs.
I am now adding kachera, and trying to learn to tie a dastar. Once I can do that well enough, I will start carrying the kanga too. This has been over months. And I am aiming for 1.5-2 years from now to do Amrit (thats when I am going on a trip to Amritsar and would like to do it at the Golden Temple if its possible). It's just the language barrier that worries me.
There is nothing wrong with reading the english transliterations.This way the whole spoken vocab is punjabi, even though you may be reading it in roman or english language.Akashji, you have no need to worry and you can read your nitnem with the transliterations. However, I do suggest that to keep your pronounciations correct, that you read along the nitnem whilst listening to it on tape or cd until you get enough practice to be able to read without listening.This way you build up more confidence in your speech and pronouncing of punjabi language.
After doing this repeatedly you can then start on your own reading the transliteration in english letters, but your speech shall all be coming across in the correct gurmukhi.Infact, I do this quite often, because my reading of gurmukhi is quite slow. Dear Sister Akasha ji, you are awesome! You are very exited to join the khalsa panth.you have so much love for God's who's language is only love.
No one have right to stop you for doing that. You can take Amrit anytime when you will feel deep voice from your heart. Guru Gobind Singh ji is calling you to become Guru ji's daughter then who can stop you.
There is nothing wrong listening to nitnem as long as you listening with devotion. When i had first time read your post about being amitdhari after 2 or 3 years, my heart filled with joy. I want to see my khalsa panth expanding. Go for it don't wait, you are ready now. Guru will guide you step by step, just surrender your self to guruji, do ardass with your every breath, beg for Guru ji Amrit.
Keep moving, don't look back life is too short, enjoy the Guru ji company. Everything you will get it will happen after you will be amitdhari.
When i took amrit i was 7 months pregnant, didn't tell anybody not even to my family members. Now I started feeling guru ji is with me, Guru ji is guiding me, i don't ask anything from others. Guru answers my questions. I would suggest you as you already are prepared for your journey, go for it don't delay, panth needs more khalsa membersn like youwe are all one in different bodies.
Don't worry about anything you are already better than uslove to allGood Luck my Sis. Sat Sri Akal Ji,I have the daily prayers in audio format (Giani Thakur Singh Ji's recording of Japji Sahib, Jaap Sahib, Tav Parsad Savaiye, Chaupai Sahib, Anand Sahib, Rehras Sahib, and Kirtan Sohila.) I also have the iPhone app called iNitnem E (English) and it has the trasliteration and translations for them so I can follow along as I listen.Since I am not fluent in Punjabi is it ok to listen to these as recordings instead of reciting them?What about if I chose to do Amrit? I know in the Rehet it says that all Sikhs should be fluent in Punjabi, and reading Gurmukhi, but even trying to learn I know that I am not good with languages. I took French all through school years and learned a vocabulary of about maybe 50 words and can only say very basic phrases (like ask for directions etc). Can I still do Amrit if I am not fluent in Punjabi, and I can I use recordings and translations to follow along, instead of reciting them on my own?
Or does my ability to do Amrit depend on me having to fluently learn Punjabi?? Thanks for your kind words! It means a lot to me! I do want to point out however that I am not better than anyone.
In fact I am still learning and making many mistakes in this experience we call life. Having said that, I believe the point to life is to realize the divine within ourselves (and everyone else) and merge back with the creator (this was my belief even before I knew this was what Sikhi teaches!)And a big realization I had awhile back is that (this is just my own realization / opinion) is that the real secret to 'Maya' or the illusion, is that we were never separate from the creator to begin with. We are all examples of the ONE creative consciousness (Waheguru) experiencing itself subjectively through many eyes (us). When I read the passage on P 736 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji telling us this fact in plain language. I was in awe! Also, having a background in quantum physics and a deep interest in how this physical world really IS an illusion made me want to follow Sikhi even more. I feel that divine presence and wish everyone I know could feel it too, but I guess they have to find it within themselves on their own and that's the whole point.But, I know my path is to follow Sikhi, and my life has been so blessed and I have been so happy since I started to attend the Gurdwara, do seva etc.
I feel I am not 100% ready for Amrit yet though, as my career puts a few roadbloacks as to head covering. As I understand it, once Amritdhari, I would have to cover my head all the time, and though male Sikhs in the Canadian Forces are allowed to wear turbans, there is no allowance for women Sikhs to do so. Instead, its suggested that they wear their regular CF headdress all the time (and there is allowance to keep it on even when normally headdress would be removed like in mess halls etc - however, I can see that causing trouble as it would always be questioned, especially with a Gori Sikh like me where my superiors would always make me prove and provide references where a male Sikh would never have to do that.) I plan on learning to tie a dastar and will need to be done my military career first (which is only a few years away). Which is why I say a few years time from now.On the other hand, if I can challenge the current CF dress regulations, and find someone to do a video step by step how to tie the typical round women style turban, and if I can learn to do it neatly. I could see taking Amrit before then! Especially now that I know I don't need to be fluent in Punjabi / Gurmuhki first. I see now that I can learn slowly as I read translations and listen to Nitnem recordings.
(btw at the Gurdwara, I do try to sing along and correctly pronounce in Punjabi along with the Sangat as they have a video screen with the transliterations and translations there as well. So that also helps me too and I am actually picking up some words that way just through repitition!)ps- I attached my favourite quote from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which is the one I mentioned above from P 736. Dear Sister Akasha ji, you are awesome! You are very exited to join the khalsa panth.you have so much love for God's who's language is only love. No one have right to stop you for doing that. You can take Amrit anytime when you will feel deep voice from your heart.
Guru Gobind Singh ji is calling you to become Guru ji's daughter then who can stop you. There is nothing wrong listening to nitnem as long as you listening with devotion. When i had first time read your post about being amitdhari after 2 or 3 years, my heart filled with joy. I want to see my khalsa panth expanding. Go for it don't wait, you are ready now. Guru will guide you step by step, just surrender your self to guruji, do ardass with your every breath, beg for Guru ji Amrit. Keep moving, don't look back life is too short, enjoy the Guru ji company.
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Everything you will get it will happen after you will be amitdhari. When i took amrit i was 7 months pregnant, didn't tell anybody not even to my family members.
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Now I started feeling guru ji is with me, Guru ji is guiding me, i don't ask anything from others. Guru answers my questions.
I would suggest you as you already are prepared for your journey, go for it don't delay, panth needs more khalsa membersn like youwe are all one in different bodies. Don't worry about anything you are already better than uslove to allGood Luck my Sis.